Urban Legends About Feminists

Does shit like this really happen? Neil Cavuto claims that he tried to open a door for a woman and the following ensued:

Do I look paralyzed to you?" she asked.

I was so taken aback that I didn't know what to say, or even what she was saying herself.

She went on to explain how I had just earlier stepped out of her way on the elevator to let her off.

I just assumed it was the gentlemanly thing to do. I guess I'm a bit old fashioned. But she was not and she clearly wasn't into "gentlemanly."

When I recomposed myself, I had to follow her.

"Excuse me," I asked — now feeling every bit of my offended macho Italian roots — "but exactly what bug got up your butt?"

"Treating me like I have to be coddled," she said.

"By opening a door?" I asked.

She went onto explain the door thing was part and parcel of a bigger thing: An attempt by men, she said, to make women feel like they're lesser.

michele at ASV blogged about it this morning and an interesting discussion on feminism is brewing. Here's what I wrote in comments:

...I think Cavuto is making that story up because he was having a dry writing day. I consider myself a feminist and I've never said or thought anything like the situation Cavuto describes. And I've never heard of a woman in real life doing that, either. It's all part of a feminazi mythology, one part in a series of urban legends that get repeated over and over until people believe that it actually happened. Next he'll be writing about children being abducted in KMART, hair dyed black in the bathroom, and sold on the black market in Mexico.

I don't think opening a door for someone should have anything to do with gender. If you're at the door first, you hold it open. Duh.

Have you ever been in this situation? What happened? Why?

Comments

[Ratan]

A little follow up to my own comment. Again, I don't know if this really happened to Cavuto, but I'd not be too shocked.

I remember the article from the Race, Class & Gender book. I actually still have the book (why I didn't sell it back to t he bookstore, I don't know). But the essay in question was by Marilyn Frye, called "Oppression." I actually found the article online.

Maybe I'm misreading things, but here is quote from it:

"The door-opening pretends to be a helpful service, but the helpfulness is false. This can be seen by noting that it will be done whether or not it makes any practical sense... The gallant gestures have no practical meaning. Their meaning is symbolic. The door-opening and similar services provided are services which really are needed by people who are for one reason or another incapacitated – unwell, burdened with parcels, etc. So the message is that women are incapable... The message of the false helpfulness of male gallantry is female dependence, the invisibility or insignificance of women, and contempt for women."

The rest is here :
http://www.terry.uga.edu/~dawndba/4500Oppression.html

Maybe it didn't happen to Cavuto, but it seems the *idea* is out there. Whether or not people actually take this Marilyn Frye person seriously is another question all together, I guess. But if she's published in a university text book on race, class & gender, somebody is taking her seriously.

[Randy Paul]

It smells like bullshit to me. I've held doors for women in NYC plenty of times without any such confrontations. Maybe she just recognized Cavuto for the lame fuckwad that he is.

It also reminds me of a joke:

A man is riding the crowded subway and a young woman standing in front of him approaches him with several large bags in front of her waist.

"Sir, I'm sorry to bother you, but could you let me have your seat. I'm pregnant."

The man immediately puts up his newspaper, rises from his seat and says, "Of course."

As the woman sits down and puts her bags on the floor revealing her flat stomach, the man, realizing he's been snookered, he arches an eyebrow and asks "So how far along are you?"

She replies, "Thirty minutes - and I'm exhausted."

[Rox]

Wow. Well, as for me, I don't have the time to even think about who is holding a door open, when and how. I say, "thanks" without hardly noticing who's holding the door and go about my business.

I have noticed older men wince a tiny bit when I've done it for them, but I chalk it up to a generational thing.

As an aside, I was once at a meeting with some highly ranked military people (I was a civilian). None of the men would sit down until I did. I didn't even notice at first, but a co-worker told me to sit down or else the meeting would never start. I thought it was a little weird, but I also chalked it up to their age and quickly forgot about it.

When men try to give their seat on the subway --and, believe me, it only happens about once a year-- I decline. Not because I'm insulted by it. But, because I reckon they're just as tired as I am. They got there first and why should I get the seat?

When I look at the plight of women, especially women overseas, I think there's bigger fish to fry that this kind of stuff.

[eRobin]

Okay, I've never objected to a man holding a door for me because I got way used to it in college when I was dating my husband, who does the gentlemanly stuff - stands when a woman enters a room ... But I have had men object to my holding a door for them. A few - three tops - have refused to walk through a door I was holding. They waited until I gave in or found another door. Some simply balked - probably just momentarily surprised - and then walked through. The rest didn't view it as a problem. I never make a big deal out of doing it, but sometimes the situation is difficult to avoid - especially when I'm with the kids and I'm already holding the door for them. They don't always move in the nice tight herd I encourage.

[NTodd]

Doesn't pass the smell test. I've *never* had a woman yell at me for being courteous--not even in college, where there were lots of feminist types.

[NancyP]

The quote from the textbook is old, and does reflect the meaning of the gesture to a certain generation long since gone or subject to having doors opened for them on account of frail old age. White middle or upper class women of any age at one time were deemed too frail to engage in any simple physical activity in public, and there was the message that women of that class should remain decorative in public. The elaborate manners had a 19th century air to them, when higher education was thought to be unhealthy for ladies, and public speaking was thought scandalous. The manners hung on into the 20th century, though vestigial. Many men did this because they had been taught that nice men held doors for ladies, some few men did this because they wished to emphasize that they were strong and that women were weak and should remember to stay subordinate and compliant to their men. Of course very few white men even in the 20th century held doors, etc for lower class women or for non-white women. Again, the 19th century pattern was perpetuated perhaps without thinking about the implied content - the servant/laborer class by definition is subordinate and needed no designation.

Has any woman in the past 25 years made this rude comment claimed by Cavuto? I doubt it. Might a rude college-age woman have made this comment, or delivered a polite "no thanks, not necessary" in 1973? Maybe.

[Lauren]

I don't balk one bit, whomever gets to the door first opens it, but people who know I'm of a feminist mind do. They often apologize and ask if I'm offended.

And really, it's over the top. I smell bullshit and it appears Michelle believes the feminist man-hater myth.

[Lexi]

I doubt this happened. I respond to courtesy, no matter who offers it. I open doors for men, I give my seat to the elderly, etc. And I say thank you.

IF this happened, that was a just a woman having a bad day, or else she wasn't raised right.

[norbizness]

On a related note, Cavuto's head's gravitational pull has attracted several NEO (Near Earth Objects) into elliptical orbit

[GraceD]

Cool, the guys who come over to confirm Cavuto's bogus asshattery. For the record, I have opened the door for many a man (some who have not thanked me) and, if this has anything to do with anything, have paid child support for three years. No urban legend there. I have the receipts and tax records to wave at any feminist hating naysayer.

[newswriter]

I don't know that such a thing has ever happened in real life, but certainly couldn't say it didn't, especially in some of the early years when we were just getting used to the idea that we could tell a man to FO. Doors are to be held by the first one there, as far as I'm concerned, and probably with a quick glance backward to make sure you're not letting one slam somebody in the face.

[Amanda]

Like NancyP said, chivalrous gestures did connote female weakness in the past. But nowadays, chivalry has really disappeared and been replaced by a general politeness, which a feminist educated enough to know what chivalry was about would know. Story is B.S.

[RichA]

I've been holding doors open for people for over forty years, now, and I did have a girl mutter "chauvinist" at me once--but this was back in high school, she was making a joke, and I was just thrilled that she noticed me. I almost always get a quick nod or thanks when I do it; I actually get a little irritated when someone (male or female) doesn't acknowledge what I'm doing. I've heard stories like Cavuto's a couple of times on talk radio, and I figure either the opener is making a big production about what should be a matter of common courtesy, happened to catch someone on a really bad day, or is bullshitting...

[snakehairedgirl]

When I was younger and stronger, I used to get pretty pissy when male co-workers didn't think I could carry a box of books or help lift heavy furniture. Now that I carry a 30 lb toddler around too often, I'm very glad to let anyone else who offers lift boxes and other assorted heavy things.

[larkspur]

The point isn't the door. We can tell that by how quickly the guy goes from being "gentlemanly" to being crude and confrontational with bugs-up-butts remarks.

My father used to do this thing he thought was funny. If we were at the dinner table and conversation lagged (or sometimes even when the conversation was going nicely), he'd knock on the underside of the table really hard. Then he'd say, "Hey, is that gunfire I hear? Speaking of the war...." And off he'd go into a story about World War II, which was his favorite time *ever*.

Cavuto's using a similar hook. Anyone with the smallest bit of sense understands that the whole point is to get from here to there as quickly and seamlessly as possible, with the least amount of unpleasantness. If either opening the door for someone, or holding it open as you go through to make it easier for the person behind you helps accomplish this aim, then why not simply do it (or accept the gesture), and burn up your brain cells on some other problem.

I'll bet Cavuto's next column will be about the weird smell from his neighbor's apartment...which turns out to be the smell of *burning bras* OMG.

[mrs mcmuffin]

...or the glass ceiling that's appeared in his.