Last Sunday, during my regular stint at The American Street, I wrote about how I've been sensing a "change of heart" in my Republican friends and relatives. Here's an excerpt:
In the last week, I’ve had several extemporaneous conversations with Republican friends and relatives. Some of them are Born-Again Christians. Some of them are fiscal conservatives. Some of them are moderates who voted for Bush because they thought the Republicans were the best equipped to fight terrorism. One of them is a Republican blogger. To cut to the chase, they’ve all got “buyer’s remorse.” And it isn’t because of the bankruptcy bill, social security reform or the rise of the influence of the religious Right.Perhaps ironically, they believe Iraq is FUBAR. And they started thinking that right after the elections there.
I also wondered aloud about how we should welcome these folks "back" so that we can all stand together and let the evil ones feel the hard swiftness of our collective shoe leather.
Well, I am happy to report what is sure to be one of many "buyer's remorse" posts. Check out these excerpts from Prolix:
Well, I am one of those “Buyer’s Remorse” republicans and I can’t think of a good way to have it rubbed in my face how wrong I was to support Shrub in Ought-Four. Don’t get me wrong, I still think going into Iraq and clearing out the bastards was the right thing to do. But I can sure as hell concede that it isn’t/wasn’t/probably won’t be done the right way. I’m pissed as hell that I was lied to and I’m more pissed that I bought it.[snip]
The question, “What do we do about it?” leaves me stumped. Impeachment? Really? Is it as bad as that? I’m not saying it isn’t, but perhaps someone can help me out here. I like to think I’m a relatively intelligent guy and I know I haven’t been paying much attention lately, what with work being what it is and all, but impeachment? I suppose that would really be the only way to get the point across now. We can’t very well not elect him again, it’s too late for that. But the consequences of impeachment are too dire for me to support that. Dick Cheney for president? I’m thinkin’ no.
More are coming. Wait and see.
It's the same question as the return of the Liberal Warfloggers. Same rationale, too: I really belived! I still think we were right, it's the execution that failed! How was I to know?
No welcome mat at my door then, and none now. We can turn down the volume and talk like sensible people about it, but none of this "I still know better than the people who saw clearly all along" drivel. What you can have instead is a decent interval in which to come to terms with how wrong you were and why. Save the acts of contrition for the next time the Democratic candidate, or half the populace, gets slimed in public.
The real tipping point comes when the religious right nominates the next Republican presidential candidate. And they will.
Posted by: doghouse riley | 15 March 2005 at 13:19
I know we should welcome them back with open arms from a political POV, but I'm still too pissed at these folks for ignoring reality, dismissing us as anti-American hysterics, and now all of a sudden getting a clue and expecting that makes up for all. No, I want some penance first. There's blood on all our hands, but they get double for supporting an evil, evil bastard and sticking the US and the world with his shit for 4 more long, dark years.
Posted by: NTodd | 15 March 2005 at 14:12
Maybe some of us aren't looking for vindication from you, NTodd. Maybe we just want to admit we were wrong.
For my penance, I'll go stand in the middle and get whipped by both sides. Much like I was doing before 9/11.
Posted by: michele | 15 March 2005 at 14:24
Mandela diidn't ask for penance: he started the reconciliation process right off the bat.
Posted by: Chris Clarke | 15 March 2005 at 14:46
I'm not looking to reconcile with anyone but myself.
Nor am I looking to "return" to any specific group. There's lots of bad water under the bridge and it flows from both sides - reconciliation probably isn't a reality. For now.
Posted by: michele | 15 March 2005 at 15:22
michele - noble sentiment, but your admission doesn't bring back 1500 dead "coalition" troops or tens of thousands of Iraqis. You don't want vindication from me? Fine. Do whatever helps you sleep at night. You can start by working to actively repair the damage your vote caused.
Sorry, but I am in no mood to feel sorry about your feelings of angst. Not very charitable or Quakerly of me, but I've got an irascible side that will not be placated by your protestations that you somehow didn't know what was wrong with Bush. Since Godwin's Law has been suspended, I feel it's apt to remind you that the Germans said much the same shit after WWII.
Thank you for at least coming to your senses before we started putting people into camps...ooh, wait, too late. Oh well, gotta break a few eggs and all that, right?
Chris - good point, but note that the reconciliation process involved a national, public admission of crimes. Reconciliation isn't a wand you wave and make all go away. It's an active confrontation of the evil, followed by acceptance. You don't sweep anything under the rug.
Being someone who firmly believes in the Gandhian priniciple of satyagraha, I readily admit that I have no corner on the truth market. I recognize everybody has their own truth to contribute. As I said earlier, there's blood on all our hands--those of us who opposed the war included because we were ineffective in stopping the disaster from unfolding. I just want people to be a little more willing to own up to their mistakes, instead of saying they don't want vindication from us.
I'm not saying we should march people like michele through the streets with heads shaven, pelting them with clods of dirt. But I refuse to accept their handwringing and whispered apologies offered with an attitude that somehow we ought to shower them with praise for finally realizing that voting for a man whose administration launched an illegal, immoral war on false pretenses, actively engaged in a policy of real torture, undermined democracy and security here and abroad, catered to bigots who would deny civil rights to wide swaths of our citizens, and are now trying to dismantle all the social institutions that have been the hallmark of our republic...uh, turns out to be kinda bad.
Posted by: NTodd | 15 March 2005 at 16:45
I readily admit that I have no corner on the truth market.
Damn. Guess I'll have to keep looking.
Posted by: Chris Clarke | 15 March 2005 at 17:01
Chris - try Best Buy. Don't go for the extended warranty, though. Total scam.
Posted by: NTodd | 15 March 2005 at 17:08
Its just like what I told many of my Republican associates before the election: "be careful what you wish for... it might just come true."
I have no pitty for those with remorse.
Posted by: DJenx | 15 March 2005 at 17:10
No welcoming arms. Bush has broken three countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, and the US. He's pissed off the world community, Bolton being the last straw. He's thumbed his nose at arms treaties, the environment, civil rights, women's rights, Social Security, the economy, the middle class, the poor. He arbitrarily started a war with a sovereign nation and established torture as a right of a superpower, giving away any moral high ground we may have once had.
At a party this weekend I had a woman cheerfully tell me she had waited until when she was in the booth to vote for Kerry (even though she didn't like him and liked how Bush presented things). She figured Bush would win, so she would help balance out the other side. I choked out a mild response. She had no idea what the election had been about.
A lot of people did not think. They did not care to examine. They did not question. They voted to negate the rights of Iraqis or gays or liberals. The biggest vote for Bush was the biggest negative vote ever. Filled with the rantings of Rush and Bill and Anne, they voted to be the biggest bully, the most dominant thug on the block.
And now, with NO OBVIOUS LEARNING CURVE, we are supposed to forgive this democratic hijacking and treachery? We still are balanced on the edge of ruin and a one party state, and we are supposed to pick ourselves up and forgive when the bully asks why we can't take a joke?
Not until people have their faces rubbed in the disaster of George the Lesser's reign and an acknowledgement of the deaths in the wars he has caused, the destruction of national parks, safety nets for our elderly, the hunger of our welfare children.
No welcoming arms until they realize what went wrong, what we lost, and attempt to address it.
Posted by: ellroon | 15 March 2005 at 17:19
DJenx - I think it's good they have discovered remorse, but there still is this sense that we should pat them on the head or something.
"There, there...no way you could know the guy would turn out to be *this* evil!"
You can say that to those who supported him in 2000 (heck, I thought he would suck, but never imagined just how depraved he could be). 2004? No, sorry, you had 4 years to see *exactly* what he was about, and still you called *us* traitors, merrily joined the Swifties in smearing a decorated veteran, and voted for a guy who clearly represented myriad things absolutey contrary to American ideals.
They stood up to be counted with the enemies of everything the we stand for. Who gives a damn what they believe? These folks went for the guy they'd most like to have a beer with. That's fine when voting for your frat's president, it's irresponsible during the election of the most powerful position in the world.
Posted by: NTodd | 15 March 2005 at 17:23
Being from Louisiana I was able to see some family members and friends in the national gaurd go off to Iraq, the grumbeling began. Now, in this former Bush strong hold, all they do is speak Ill of Bush and Iraq.
Perhaps they should have done some reading and learned about the middle east, the differing cultures and the factions within the cultures, before believing Iraq could have been won over so easily.
Posted by: Blue | 15 March 2005 at 17:24
NTodd et al:
On a certain level, I hear what you are saying. But, we're going to need folks like
michele to change the paradigm. And she has influence. Are you sure you want to totally alienate her?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying folks shouldn't take some responsibility.
Posted by: Roxanne | 15 March 2005 at 17:55
*Sigh* I'm tired of being understanding and reasonable and nice. It pisses me off that I'm a liberal and understand nuance and respect diversity.
But ok, ok. C'mon here and get a group hug.
Now NEVER DO IT AGAIN!!
Posted by: ellroon | 15 March 2005 at 18:11
Rox - if michele is being intellectually honest and has truly "converted", my snark or vitriol will not change her mind any more than my discussing facts changed her mind before November. If she's going to use my reaction to her Grand Enlightenment as an excuse to run back to Bush, then I guarantee by '06 she will find whatever justification she needs even if I were peaches and cream.
This is tough love. This is the rolled up newspaper. They shit on the rug, and I'm not going to give them a Scoobie Snack for leaving me a present in the living room.
They told us to get over 2000 and 2004. Well golly, I'm so sorry I'm hurting their feelings, but maybe they should get over it.
Let them wear the hairshirt for a while. We've got 2 years before we need to apply the Bag Balm.
[/mixing metaphors and stuff]
Posted by: NTodd | 15 March 2005 at 18:26
I'm sorry, and feel free to call me a pessimist, but this seems like the first stirrings of the pre-election "We're gonna win this" self-delusion. Anecdotal evidence is notoriously bad, and IIRC, Mrs. Populi lives in a tremendously blue part of the country, which makes her anecdotes on this matter doubly suspect (with due respect, I'm a fan of hers).
The deluded will, in my opinion and based on what I've seen of my countrymen, remain deluded; their cognitive dissonance feeding itself endlessly and their ignorance of world affairs ricocheting around the "heartland" states long beyond the point where their fictional view of the world makes any sense, even to themselves.
And -- more to the point -- the next election cycle we will see the Republicans once again trot out the constant boogeymen of Homosexuals, Liberals, Satanists, Foreigners and Elites to whip the idiot masses into a frenzy of self-righteous, conformist, Bush-idolatry. And all the morons will once again vote their venom. And we will all sit around, once again, and wonder what the hell is going on.
Sorry for being such a downer on this, but I am 100% convinced that the ever widening gyre which the GOP and 9/11 started will not come to an end except through calamity, and I challenge anyone here to mention a historical precedent for optimism under similar circumstances. Make no mistake: the GOP won, in part, by actively demonizing groups of their own citizens. That's a bad road to have started down... and it was easy. There's enough mindless, dog-stupid hatred in this country to feed the GOP for a good long time. Once it finally boils over and gets out of their control, the smart ones will simply ride the wave rather directing it, and will continue in power even longer.
Posted by: Chad Robinson | 15 March 2005 at 18:38
Impeachment. Really. Or at least making sure that the House and Senate are equalized. Those who are feeling buyers remorse over B**h can work to rebalance the political discourse. Let us see your letters to the editor, and let us see you volunteer to become active to help steer the country in a better direction. It is easy to find a way to participate!
Posted by: architect66 | 15 March 2005 at 18:44
Let them wear the hairshirt for a while. We've got 2 years before we need to apply the Bag Balm.
"Take off the Stone of Shame! And attach the Stone of Triumph!"
Posted by: Chris Clarke | 15 March 2005 at 18:50
"They told us to get over 2000 and 2004. Well golly, I'm so sorry I'm hurting their feelings, but maybe they should get over it."
You need to know a little about me first before you make assumptions. I voted for Nader in 2000. I've been a registered Republican since 1980 and 2004 was the first time I ever voted with party in a presidential election.
I'm not a "real" Republican. I'm not even close to being conservative. I was a one issue voter. The war on terror was my only interest. That was incredibly short sighted of me, I know.
Posted by: michele | 15 March 2005 at 18:52
I'm not a "real" Republican. I'm not even close to being conservative. I was a one issue voter. The war on terror was my only interest. That was incredibly short sighted of me, I know.
I think you're a bit of a synecdoche in this thread, michele: one person who's being asked to stand in for a whole mass of people. (Also a decaying industrial town in Upstate New York.)
If all you did was vote for Bush out of fear of terrorism, I won't do much more than cluck my tongue at you. You were scammed. Be careful of that.
Folks who voted for Bush due to the laundry list of Kultur issues who're now having second thoughts because of Social Security? I wanna say "fuck 'em," but I'll work with them too.
I do some neighborhood politics, and last year worked to oppose a rather sudden environmentally threatening project almost literally in my backyard. Among the allies I worked with in that fight were a number of progressive neighbors (including long-term gay couples), idealistic and apolitical immigrants from Peru and Nigeria and the Philippines, conservative retired Republicans, and at least one far-right xenophobe. I worked with all of them gladly and made no secret about the radical left earth first type that I am.
And we won.
Posted by: Chris Clarke | 15 March 2005 at 19:12
You need to know a little about me first before you make assumptions. I voted for Nader in 2000. I've been a registered Republican since 1980 and 2004 was the first time I ever voted with party in a presidential election.
I'm not a "real" Republican. I'm not even close to being conservative. I was a one issue voter. The war on terror was my only interest. That was incredibly short sighted of me, I know.
Actually, this changes my feelings or position not in the slightest.
Posted by: NTodd | 15 March 2005 at 19:39
I am willing to hold off on my final judgement until I hear more from these "buyer's remorse" people.
Michele and others -- What are you going to do to help us change the way things are?
If they are willing to role up their sleeves and help us I'd be more willing to accept their "remorse."
Posted by: Eli | 15 March 2005 at 20:00
Eli - what I'm sayin':
You can start by working to actively repair the damage your vote caused.
Sorry doesn't cut it. I want to see deeds match words.
Posted by: NTodd | 15 March 2005 at 20:15
Well, they can start by getting rid of their goddamned SUVs and "Support the Troops" ribbon magnets....(/snark)
I have to go with the Quaker on this one: "Deeds, not words." All we've *been* doing is reconciling, so much so that the Democratic Party is regarded as nothing more than a eunuch at this point.
Frankly, I would like to see these alleged buyers with remorse to come forth and stand alongside those of us who refused to be snookered by BushCo. to demand change from their legislators and the White House. Engage for change. Don't wait for those wacky liberal protestors to get back out on the goddamned street...again.
It's all very nice to sit in one's recliner and say, "Wow, I fucked up by voting for Bush" and then go back to watching "American Idol."
Posted by: watertiger | 15 March 2005 at 20:52
Well, this thread has gotten awfully personal. Don't go tripping on your shoelaces tyring to rip Michele to shreds.
I don't need any political penance. A simple "I was duped" will do. No penance isn't going to bring back lives or reerect buildings bombed into powder, so I suggest we all rethink whether or not we all want former Republican voters to walk out of the city with rocks in their shoes. What kind of good does that do, other than soothe some need for liberal moral comeuppance?
Posted by: Lauren | 15 March 2005 at 21:17