In Which I Piss Off the "True Believers" Again

Gotta say I agree 100% with Billmon on this in general, and this bit in particular:

Personally, I'd like to pitch the tent big enough to include a decent-sized chunk of the working class Christo-Caucasian American vote -- particularly those Hispanics who might be tempted to jump ship on "values" grounds. Without them, the party's prospects probably really are hopeless.

Howard Dean's like a 6 year-old at the adult dinner party who proudly announces that somebody cut the cheese. It's time for Dean and most of his followers to do some growing up.

Comments

[feminist]

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[newswriter]

There you go again, Roxanne. I know you don't think Dems need to just speak kindly their Republican brethern, because, after all, we're all after the same thing here .... hell no! Dr. Dean is saying outloud what so many of us are thinking. And if Dems are smart, they do what John Edwards did .... dismiss any "controversy" over Dean's remarks and dive right into what Democrats would like to do with U.S. policy. Certainly not do what Joe Biden did -- "he doesn't speak for me."

We do need to pitch the tent pretty wide. But Dean isn't gonna shrink it. He's gonna make sure we don't lose the people with fire who'll light up the Democratic party.

Dean isn't running for president any more. But he has given Democrats a wide open arena to start talking about their plans. As long as they don't act like Joe.

Like the site design by the way.

[Shawn]

Have to agree. I'd like to hear more about plans and ideas than what Republicans might be like.

[Roxanne]

Yep, I got the "there you go again" memo, too, this morning.

Who are these extra people Dean is pulling into the tent, exactly? My sense is that they wouldn't be Republicans.

Now, if you're talking fundraising, that's another matter altogether.

[Night Owl]

Howard Dean's like a 6 year-old at the adult dinner party who proudly announces that somebody cut the cheese.

There is nothing 'adult' about politics in America right now. Until Dems understand that, they will continue to lose elections.

[Thad]

Who are these extra people Dean is pulling into the tent, exactly?

We won't know until 2006, when the renewed focus on the local and state parties starts to show some results. At least, that's the plan.

As for party insiders training their fire on Dean, why is it that when Kerry won the nomination, Dean and his supporters were supposed to shut up and get in line -- which they did, like good little soldiers -- but now that Dean is head of the DNC, nobody in the party has got his back?

Obviously, I'm not talking about you, here, Rox, or any other liberal bloggers. Nothing wrong with kibitzing amongst ourselves. But when it comes to high-profile Dems like Edwards and Biden and Pelosi -- you don't like what Dean said? So what? Suck it up. Stick a few pins in your Howard Dean voodoo doll. Kick your trash can across your office. Whatever. But when it comes to public statements, your job is to get out there and defend fellow Dems, not attack them. Your job is to reinforce the our message, not sabotage it. (Has any Republican said anything bad about Ken Mehlman, ever?) And fercrissakes, at the very least, don't act as an amplifier for GOP misdirection, like claiming that Dean was "attacking the electorate" when he was clearly talking about GOP insiders.

Party insiders don't have to like what Dean says, and they don't have to like Dean personally. But they had their chance to stop his nomination and get someone else in there, and they failed. So, like it or not, he's party chair, and it's their turn to shut up and get in line. It's Pelosi and Edwards and Biden who are acting like petulant six-year olds, not Dean.

[norbizness]

It was still, politically, a marvelously dumb statement. "White Christian" is not a scare-phrase. "Hyper-conservative evangelicals" is, and is more accurate concerning the puppet-masters that jerk Frist, DeLay, and the President around.

Right now, nearly 70% of independents don't feel that the President shares their priorities. Nothing should stray from this message. Out-of-touch, arrogant, reactionary evangelicals are running this country into the ground. We want to save it, etc. etc.

Don't worry, I'm not a Democrat, so I'm not violating the 11th Commandment.

[norbizness]

Sorry to post again, but Thad is also right. Politicians in the Democrat party, even preeners that are positioning for a presidential run in 2008, should shut the fuck up and keep the criticism in-house. It works for sports franchises.

[Shawn]

There's a lot of talk among GOPers that they are a diverse bunch. You've got the socially conservative evangelicals on one hand and the more libertarian small government types on the other, generally speaking. The result is that they celebrate this diversity and mock the Democrats by saying they're all in lockstep.

[Thad]

It was still, politically, a marvelously dumb statement.

Yeah, the "white, Christian" thing was clearly a blunder, but that's no reason for Democrats to pile on in public. Begala had the right reaction -- "Duh... I think it's news from nowhere."

The other "gaffes" have been right on the money. DeLay should be in jail right now. Lots of Republican leaders -- including, obviously, the President -- haven't worked an honest day in their lives. Backing away from self-evident claims like this only hurts you -- it makes you and the party look like a bunch of wusses.

[Roxanne]

The other thing that's funny is that the Democratic Party is also a party of white Christians.

[Agitprop]

The Democrats should not eat their own in public. It's fine for people to criticize Dean in private. But the Democrats' public display of disapproval in Dean merely gives Republicans more ammo and confirms their prediction that Dean will be the death of the DNC.

I may not always agree with Dean's style, but he is speaking the truth. Why shoot the messenger of truth?

[Bellman]

Dean's not running for anything, so I suspect this is the party-building portion of the game. As my colleague Zwichenzug remarked today, regarding Dean's name-calling, "....let's just note that calling liberals names has been a pretty good strategy for the Right."

[Bellman]

Oh, and as for in-house criticism... Many liberal bloggers (and liberal commenters on blogs) feel like they are talking to other liberals because, for the most part, they are. However, what constitutes
"in-house" criticism these days? I'm not sure.

[zmulls]

One could publish a book of statements made by Ed Gillespie over the last few years that were ten times more vile than the couple of statements made by Dean in recent weeks.

And it's partly due to the media picking out the choice bits and ignoring the substance of what he's saying.

It's up to Democrats to help redirect the conversation.

I think Edwards' TPM post was just right. Somebody can mis-speak on occasion, but here's our message........

Dean's doing his job, and I'm very anxious to see what he reaps from all the groundwork he's doing in the "heartland." Only time is going to tell but I think we should have his back while he tries.

[upyernoz]

dean may say stupid things now and then, but his positives more than make up for his negatives. besides, the current president is proof that making stupid comments is no barrier to political success in this country.

[Thad]

What constitutes "in-house" criticism these days?

Not an appearance on Press The Meat, that's for sure.

The other galling thing about this is that, as Agitprop says, Dean's recent statements are only considered "gaffes" because other Democrats decided to make a big show of having the vapors. "Oh, dear me, Dean called Tom DeLay a criminal? Why I never! The very suggestion!"

If other Democrats would just take a nice big swig of Samuel Jackson and follow through with, "Yes, he deserves to be in jail, and I hope they throw away the key!" we might have a shot at changing the narrative to actually talking about Tom DeLay's criminal activities, instead of Dean's "gaffes."

At the very least, a simple, smiling "Well, you can always count on Howard Dean for a juicy soundbite, can't you?" or "Well, nobody ever accused Howard Dean of being shy about speaking his mind" will do -- it deflects the issue and then you can go on to whatever it is you want to talk about.

But all of this very public "Howard Dean should be ashamed of himself for stating the obvious" is incredibly counterproductive. I don't get how Rox thinks he's the one being juvenile here, when he's the one actually taking the fight to the GOP, while the party insiders seem more interested in re-fighting the DNC leadership race all year long.

[carla]

There is nothing 'adult' about politics in America right now. Until Dems understand that, they will continue to lose elections.

Bingo.

The GOP stop playing in the adult realm long ago. Why do you think "liberal" is a dirty word now? It sure as hell has nothing to do with "growing up". It has to do with pounding a message so long and so consistently that people now believe it. The truth has become what they made it be.

Howard Dean is a fucking hero. With spine intact..he wades into the media swill and refuses to back down from telling it how we know it is. The GOP is in fact the party of white Christians. I don't get the discomfort with that statement. It is what it is.

The response of "..well..the Dems have white Christians too.." is just so navel gazing it makes me crazy. White Christians aren't pulling the strings of the Democratic Party. That is so obviously Dean's point in his statement...I can't for the life of me understand how that's not crystal clear.

True believers? Bah. It's the DLC types and the wishy washy Democrats who are so fucking afraid to stand up for something for fear they'll be knocked down by the Rovian media onslaught that hurt the Democrats.

[Chris Clarke]

I've never been a Dean cultist - I'm not even a Democrat. I think focusing on what Dems need to do to maximize crossover voting by disaffected republicans is fine.

But don't forget the disaffected from the other direction: those who are so firmly persuaded that the increasingly indistinguishable parties (allowing for some leftward Dem reactivity in the last four years) do not speak for them. In 2004, in one of the most highly contested and volatile presidential elections in US history, more than a third of eligible potential voters didn't vote.

So sure, going out of his way to insult individual conservative voters probably isn't a good idea. But the point is to articulate a coherent, palatable program addressing real-world issues, which are going unmentioned in current political discourse. And the difference between "Most Republicans have never worked a day in their lives" and "The people who matter most to the Republican Party have never done a single day of real work" might be easy for Fox News to blur, but we need to say that second one as often and as loudly as possible.

[KenyanGold]

First post, sorry if I'm not following proper etiquette)
I agree that the way it's being spun (and admittedly, the way it's originally phrased) is bad for the party. But there is a right way and wrong way to handle it. We should all know Dean and Democrats have nothing against whites or Christians (most of us being one or the other anyway). It only causes a rift in the party. There are those who are die hard Dean fans, those who are indifferent and those who really dislike his style. So it's either live with what you have or infuriate an entire (large) part of your most vocal base by trying to remove him. He's the officially (and legally!) elected chairman of the party. He's only been there for a few months and regional Dems already love him. I think Bill Scher has it exactly right here (scroll down to the "quick hit"). Use Dean's (arguably) poorly chosen words to explain what he meant and how Democrats and republicans differ. This is infinitely more helpful to our cause than reinforcing the republican and Media's contention that Dean is a maniac who is bad for the country, but good for republicans.

[Pepper]

Thank you, Chris. I'll even repeat it:

"The people who matter most to the Republican Party have never done a single day of real work."

And he's right. Usually, I get all nervous when Howard sends us on a hayride, but we've all seen where taking the high road gets you. Nowhere.

Also, Dean did say, according to the transcript, when referring to the Republicans, "A LOT OF THEM have never made an honest living in their lives." He did qualify the statement, if only a little, but I've seen the "a lot of them" dropped in news reports.

In summary, an F for style, but an A for message. Besides, Dean always makes people squirm because he brings up class hierarchies so boldly whereas most people dance around the subject.

(Oh, and I'm not pissed, per se, just feeling like I needed to defend Dean a little.)

[Shawn]

and "The people who matter most to the Republican Party have never done a single day of real work" might be easy for Fox News to blur, but we need to say that second one as often and as loudly as possible.

Or say the reverse. "The people who matter most to the Democratic Party are those Americans who work hard every day to provide for their families." To me, that's showing me the appeal of voting Democrat and it also implies a question: if that's what the Dems are, then what are the Repubs?

[KenyanGold]

Well according to the transcript he also says "It is as if the Republican leadership never had to work a day in their life. What possible understanding could they have of what a working person in this country has to go through, if they're against everything that's good for working people?" How hard would it be to say something positive for Dems from that?

[Shawn]

He also said, "And Democrats need to speak to those issues. We are going to speak to those issues."

When? As someone who is in the middle and doesn't kowtow to party loyalty, I'm not so much interested in how Dems differ from the GOP, but what can they offer me? If all I hear is anger and constant criticism of the GOP, I begin to wonder if they are any good ideas coming from the left.

[carla]

He also said, "And Democrats need to speak to those issues. We are going to speak to those issues."

When? As someone who is in the middle and doesn't kowtow to party loyalty, I'm not so much interested in how Dems differ from the GOP, but what can they offer me? If all I hear is anger and constant criticism of the GOP, I begin to wonder if they are any good ideas coming from the left.

Shawn:

I'm curious as to if you actually listened to Dean's statements. He talks at length about supporting the middle class and all those who work hard with Social Security, jobs and funding public schools so that all Americans have opportunity. He talks about ending the fear campaign and renewing a hopeful spirit in America.

Shawn is an example of why Republicans continue to win. Shawn is only listening to the sound bites shoved out in the recycled news mantras of rightwing media..and not able to hear what's really being said by Dean and other Democrats.

And this "Dean should stfu" stuff isn't helping.