A Note to the Non-Feminist Universe

Contrary to popular assumption, not all feminists agree on every issue. We're not jacked-in to an Andrea-Dworkin-Borg-Hive-Mind nor do we meet each fortnight to sample each other's menstrual blood. If you examine the wide variety of issues feminist bloggers post on, you'll find both subtle and enormous differences of opinion. But you don't note those differences because they don't forward your bad faith arguments.

Comments

[eli]

all liberals = ward churchill
all republicans = strom thurmond
all journalists = judy miller
all christians = dobson

do we wonder why most of the blogosphere resembles a terrible high school lincoln-double debate?

[eli]

sorry. double = douglas

[Cardinal Fang]

That's very nice dear
now put your pinny back on
and make me a cup of tea

[almostinfamous]

michael moore is porcine!

[tas]

You know, I started to read that Protein Wisdom post you linked to, but then I stopped and asked myself, "Why?" Anytime somebody with some sembelence of sanity links there, the reason usually ain't good and Jeff's arguments and usually ridiculous and not even worth discussing.

Ezra wants people to ignore Town Hall, maybe I'll start a similar campaign against Protein Wisdom. I've wasted too much time, that I'll never see again, there, so I guess I'm just bitter.

But Jeff is still useless.

[Jeff G]

Um, actually I believe Roxanne linked to one of my commenters, tas. My own argument was neither uncivil nor did it assume all feminists are the same. In fact, I take care to separate out the different schools of feminist thought as best I can. And I did so in this case, as well.

You say "you started to read that Protein Wisdom post", tas, but had you really done so, one suspects you'd have realized it wasn't mine. And so your attack on me was both unfounded and offered out of ignorance. Which is of course wonderfully ironic.

Congrats on making an ass out of yourself.

[jami]

hear hear. i effing hate the way most feminists talk about abortion. but i'm still a feminist. and i like that the other feminist gals (and guys) are at least thinking about women's freedom.

[Jeff G]

For the record, here's my actual response to Lauren's post [which was the fourth item in a long post that linked to a bunch of stories / posts people had emailed to me]:

4. Allah is not impressed with this latest from my pal Lauren at Feministe, which post details an experiment in political empowerment that involved a Muslim student removing her hijab, and places it into the context of racism and feminism. Lauren sums up the meaning of the story this way:

I can’t even comprehend the courage it must have taken to take off that scarf, or the courage it will take to put it back on. I am still completely blown away.

Although I am aware that many feminists question hijab and women’s choice to don the Muslim head scarf, and that I myself have been skeptical of the choice to adhere to religious law associated with the Taliban, consider that in America being “hijabed” may be a radical act, an assertion of identity, willful acceptance of life on the margins in a time of a seeming holy war. Consider wearing the hijab as a feminist act, a performative act of aggression against the hypersexualization of young women in America.

[...] I got a valuable lesson from her today. Nothing, nothing, is ever as clear as it might seem. These cultural tangles prevail.

I think Lauren’s point is certainly worth considering -- but in return I’d ask that she go beyond the easy lessons she seems to have taken from this story and run the particulars through a different (and competing) identity dynamic. That is, would Lauren -- and other feminists (particularly those of the second wave) -- consider the wearing of neo-Victorian garb by those active in the Christian modesty movement in the same way she considers the wearing of the hijab? Buttoning the argyle sweater all the way to the throat, for instance, and pulling back the hair into a prim bun -- is this, too, “a performative act of aggression against the hypersexualization of young women in America”? Will doctrinaire feminists (like Amanda Marcotte, for instance) grant to young white Christian women the same nobility that Lauren does this young Muslim woman? Would a young white Christian -- fighting for her beliefs and reacting to the taunts of young women taught that piercings and tattooes and a willingness to rebel are the sine qua non of identity and empowerment -- be granted the same dispensations by the school?

As with Spielberg and Munich, Lauren seems to be reveling in the asking of the questions, allowing the open-endedness of the post’s premise to suggest an intellectual coherence that a particular way of pressuring those questions belies. So my question to her is this: are your beliefs truly idealistic? Or are they mere romanticism given the cover of seriousness by an invocation of the weighty topics -- racism, sexism, identity, authenticity -- they claim to address...?

Agree or don't with the argument. But I clearly addressed Lauren on a substantive basis and tried in good faith to engage the thinking that infused her post.

In response, Lauren asks me in her follow-up post:

Would Jeff and Allah be down with modesty-wear if the Christian woman were explicitly arguing her decision to do so from a feminist standpoint?

...to which I responded:

Can’t speak for Allah. For me, the answer is yes. And you’ll get the same answer about women who choose to strip, pose nude, do porn, or join a harem. One aspect of being an equity feminist (and being libertarian in most respects) myself is that I not only recognize and accept a woman's choosing to become a gender feminist, but I likewise accept and respect a woman's choosing to become a paid pipe smoker. I may disagree with both of those decisions — but I love the freedom that allows for them.

Feel free, as tas has done, to call me "useless" and my arguments "ridiculous and not worth discussing." But in doing so, you are, in my opinion, showing yourselves to be fearful of the very questions you claim to raise.

[Roxanne]

Boy, if you turn off your computer to make Morrocan Chicken for dinner, you're going to miss alot!

For the record ...

1. I specifically linked a comment at PW and not the entire post because I didn't have an issue with the entire post. Jeff has other ideas from time-to-time that I find troubling, but that isn't my beef with this post.

2. I'm not in favor of the veil. Never have been. And have stated many times on this blog and elsewhere. That being said, people should be free to do as THEY wish. The "THEY" is important here.

3. One of the reasons I've been highly skeptical about our intentions in Iraq is that I don't think a FUNDAMENTALIST majority is capable of building a democracy. I should add that I fear FUNDAMENTALIST influence in Western governments for the very same reason

4. You won't find that I generally support some manifestations of multi-culturalism. For some crazy reason I think my culture is better than than cultures that approve of honor killings, throwing female babies on a pyre, or mothers jacking-off their teenage sons so that they'll perform better in school. That is not to say that I'm bothered by people who want to celebrate their heritage. You can wave your arms around as much as you wish as long as you don't touch someone else's nose, and all that.

...Now back to my chicken.

[tas]

I'll apologize to you, Roxanne, for implicating that you linked to a post of Jeff's. That was my error. But, like I said in my comment, I started reading it and just stopped. I think I stopped after 10 seconds.

And of course you have a right to link to whatever you want. It's your blog. :) Just registering my opinion about Jeff and his blog. Anytime it's linked to, it always seems like it's trouble.

And to save this thread from an escalating flame war, I'm not going to address Jeff's reply to my comment. I stated my position, he disagrees, that's that. The scenario wouldn't change if I replied.

[Roxanne]

And I'll add: I don't have a problem with Narnia! ;-)

[Horatio]

mothers jacking-off their teenage sons so that they'll perform better in school.

What culture is that!?!?!